Grades of Environment? - Drilling into BS8102:2022

BRENDAN:

Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are. Welcome, everybody, to the latest online event with MARKHAM: “Grades of Environment?” We're diving into a key part of British Standard 8102: 2022. I’m Brendan from the marketing department and with me today are Hayden, Alex and Christine, in their various offices. I'll just share this slide deck and the presenters will introduce themselves as we go along, if that's OK.

Now can everybody hear, and can everybody see that screen? Very good. Thank you. OK.

So, yes, very briefly. We can’t direct you to the facilities or anything like that! There is a question button at the bottom... should be at the bottom right of your screen, of the window. And there's a chat box which we’ll encourage you to use as we go along. For those of you who've been on our events before, you probably have met Haydn and Christine and Alex; and as I say, they’ll give us a few words about themselves as we proceed.

In this particular event, we're talking about why we can't ignore British Standard 8102, 2022 version. That's something of a recap of our previous webinar. And we're going to talk about what are “grades of environment” in the context of the standard? And how they apply to different types of project. As I say, there is a question button at the bottom of the window.

And if you want to just drop into the chat for us what your job role is, we'd love to know who we're talking to and what we can do to tailor this event more to your needs.

While you're proceeding with that - and please keep the comments coming - Hayden, would you like to take us away with our first module, as to why we can’t ignore the standard? Give us a couple of words about yourself for those who haven’t met you.

HAYDEN:

Cheers, Brendo. Thank you. And hello, all. Yes, Hayden Prestidge, based out of the Napier office for MARKHAM, and been involved with construction, pretty much all my working years. And been on the back end of a lot of... remedial, I suppose. And hence why I’m pretty passionate about this topic.

But good to see, just looking through who we’ve got on board. We’ve got defect people, we’ve got architects, we've got consultants, waterproofing consultants. So it's a really good whole mixture. And it does show the interest. And I think the interest and awareness is out there to, to know we're not quite hitting the mark and to know we need to do something better.

So this is purely about education, this session; and we will be running a lot more of these; and focusing in on the BS8102:2022 standard. And I just want to reiterate, this is not a specification. It's designed as a code of practice to help us get things right. And it's purely around protection of below-grade structures from water ingress. And I think if we can have that mindset, what are we doing to protect our structures from ingress? And make sure we’re working to a model, a framework, that helps us achieve the best outcomes.

And that's exactly what BS8102 is: it's a guide. It's a best practice framework. So, obviously established in Britain, where they’ve done a lot of waterproofing for many years. And then we've adopted it - and we talk about it a lot - in the Australian and New Zealand market, because there's no standard for...or code of practice for basement waterproofing in this side of the globe, sadly! Because there's so much... we have tended to focus on the, “We'll get it done, we'll fix it up later” - that type of approach. So it's trying to reverse our thinking here. And it's good that you're on board and interested in it. But yes, that was just a couple of things I wanted to mention. This is what it's all about. And then we're just going to hone in on a couple of points.

We really, really want questions in these sessions because that is where the value is. So if something's in your head right now, just pop it in either the questions box or the chat box down on the bottom right. And might just be the biggest challenge you're trying to overcome; something that you get up against all the time in waterproofing or in a discussion with a consultant, or whatever it is. And we’ll be keen to thrash it out. We have a bit of broad experience across these speakers with different areas. So trust that’s all right.

I just want to make a couple of points. We are focused on the BS8102:2022. We still see a mixture in some documentation where they pull the 2009, some points of that, and then put it against some of the 2022. So we're very much just focusing on the updated one and the most current. And we don't like to see a mixture. And I think we probably need to try, as a market, try and pull away from a mixture of resources and just focus on one framework. Because we have seen jobs where they say, Yes, we need X grade of waterproofing, but still allow X amount of failure rate, etc. It's sort of a mismatch, and allows error.

So yes, keen to be part of this, keen to be... mostly here for the question section, love that portion! So I’ll hand over to you, Christine, to run through the next slide.

CHRISTINE:

Cool cool! Hi everyone. Yes, Christine, based in the Napier office as well. I'm the New Zealand side Design and Specification Consultant. So, getting a range of involvement in below-grade waterproofing. And that's one of the reasons why I would like to talk about early engagement and things like that, is because often it can be a last minute thought, Hey, can we make this work? Rather than, if we're leaning on this standard, and the process that needs to happen... So yes, keen to be involved.

And I'm in this conversation and promoting more conversations in the industry, for people to start using this [BS8102] more than just a suggestion, but to lean on it as a best practice, like Hayden was talking about.

So yes, I'm going to cover the ‘grades of environment’. This is something that is laid out in BS8102:2022. And really helpful for your conversations as consultants when you're talking to clients, developers, so that you can lay it out really clearly and directly; and set expectations that make sense to everyone from end to end.

So you want to be looking at the grade early on, which we're going to get into in another slide. But the BS8102 also outlines definitions of what water ingress looks like. So it gives you a really clear indication of what success is and what failure is. So to start off, we've got a couple of definitions that we want to go over.

One is the definition of “seepage” in BS8102. It is the slow transmission of water through discrete sneaky pathways of a structure. So it's not an obvious pouring in. You've got a slow transmission of water. “Damp” is areas that are slightly wet. But there's not that collectible transmission of water. If you want to go to the next slide, Brendan, we'll talk about the specific grades.

So when you've got... at the lower end of the spectrum, you've got a Grade 1A basement, and this would be something that we would hope you'd be steering clients away from because it is the highest risk. But, I mean, if you're in an area where the water table's a million miles away, you could probably get away with something like a Grade 1A. So seepage and damp areas from internal and external sources are fine, as long as it's not impacting on what the structure is going to be used for.

So moving up one from there is Grade 1B; so no seepage whatsoever. So no water gradually moving through. But you might see damp patches on the wall. Again, you've got to make sure that it's not impacting on the use of the structure.

Grade 2: so no seepage is acceptable, no damp areas coming in from the outside. But it might be, like a car park or something like that, where it's OK if there's condensation forming on the walls, but it's not coming through from the outside - would be how that differs from Grade 1B to Grade 2.

And then Grade 3 is an entirely dry environment. So I think Alex is going to get into this a little bit further; but no water ingress coming from outside, no transmissible water, no damp areas happening coming from the outside. And more importantly, no damp areas forming from environmental changes and condensation from the inside. And that would require, obviously, active ventilation and dehumidifying and things like that depending on the environment.

And so those definitions are really clear, especially when you group that with the definitions for seepage and damp areas. And if we move to the next slide, we're looking at where we're going to be talking about this in a design flow process. So you can see this, it's not a very pretty diagram, but this comes out of BS8102:2022.

So this is in the standard, if you have a copy of that; or if you don't I'd highly recommend that you get yourselves a copy of that; so that you can work through it. In terms of the initial information that you're gathering - so we're talking right at the beginning stages of those workshops, round-tables that you're having - you can see circled in red there, deciding the intended use and the performance level. So not after we've talked about structural design considerations. This is all part of that initial information. So when you're looking at, collaborating with your design team, when you're assessing the site, when you're looking at risk. And the 2022 version also dictates that you need to look at the future risk, not just the risk now, not just where the water table is now, but where is it likely to be in the future if somebody builds a building next to you. And so all of that assessment comes in, in that early design phase. And you're wanting to really lock in with the whole team what the expectation is for the performance of that basement, at that early stage, which then flows through further into informing, Hey, what kind of structure does this need to be if we're wanting to achieve this performance?

Have you got more to add on that table, Hayden?

HAYDEN:

No, that’s a good summary, I think. But it does show the level of work needed around the framework to get it right. But you've outlined it really good. There's obviously a lot of specialist help just in that top circle. You know, the geotech guys, or the design consultant along with that. But then the desktop studies around future use etc. But the point you make, I think, is fantastic on deciding as a whole team, all heads together, that performance level; have that almost documented, signed, sealed; and then that transfers through all your documentation from there out. Yes, we're designing a [Grade] 1B basement or Grade 2 basement, whatever it is. Have that clarity because at that point you're really managing your risk and liability as well. Because, you know, that transfers to the end result. You get some seepage? You can say, Yes, we designed for that, that's what we decided on at the start. Those sort of things. And I think it's super important, it takes away a lot of headspace, takes away a lot of confusion down the track. That's good.

CHRISTINE:

Yes. Keen to know, if people are already... if this is the way that people are working already? Or if this is something that you would typically see pop in later in the stage or as an afterthought? Yes, keen to know whereabouts you'd normally be having those conversations and deciding that sort of thing and who would be making that call? Is it coming from developers mainly, the people spending the money, as to what they want to see, or what they're willing to pay for? Or is this something that is generally discussed in your round-tables at the start? So, yes, I'll hand it over to you. Alex.

ALEX:

Thanks, Christine, and Hayden. Alex here from the Australian office. I typically work Australia-wide and pretty much do the exact same thing that Christine mentioned: Design and Specification. So I’ve really got that main focus on your projects, early. Getting involved, ensuring that the correct considerations have been taken for the space and how it's to be used. As you can see here, we've got some typical applications for the different types, etc.

With this type [Grade 1A] here, it is... What we see all too often. It's just, you know, a basement car park, where you've got your typical spoon drain around the perimeter of it. And everybody's, you know, of the same opinion. The water is going to come in, it's going to get into the drain. It's going to drain out, and we're just going to move on with life, basically. Within that space, we need to make sure that it is extremely low risk. The moment there's an element of, you know, maybe a storage cage - which I'll go into a little bit more on the next slide - for a residential building, for example - any water transmission through that wall is just going to create headaches for everybody moving through the project's life cycle.

That's how we look at a building, is in its life cycle. And what we need to put forward to maintain that life cycle is very instrumental to its end result. So moving to the next slide there, Brendan.

So your [Grade] 1B application here is your tolerable dampness. As I mentioned previously, you know, an apartment block where you've got storage cages and you've got people actually storing their items, is where you take that more of a considerable design approach to ensure that you're minimizing as much water through that structure as possible before it hits the people’s things. I've seen personally, or too many times, in basements where the cages are, effectively, you know, stuck to the wet wall. And it just creates a lot of problems and hassle moving forward. So we just need to really take into consideration the usage of that space and ensure that we're designing practices, in place to, you know, make that space as friendly to what it's being used for as possible. Next slide please, Brendan.

Now as Christine mentioned here [Grade 2], this is where we're really stepping up that risk level, where we're wanting to ensure that the space is effectively dry. And as Christine said, the moisture within that space is purely coming from what's being used in that space. Ventilation may be required here. But it's a considerable step up, from a risk perspective, as to what the space is being used for and not having that ingress of water coming through the structure.

Next one. Brendan. This one here [Grade 3]. What we're what we're seeing in the market is a lot of tight building spaces, both residential and commercial where you can't go out, and there's limits to going up. So what we're doing is we're starting to build down. Now by doing so, as Christine mentioned, which is something that typically can factor in your water table, is building against a building, or building against a vacant lot that will have a substantial building being built next to it. And what it's going to impact your space, into the future. Now, with this [Grade] 3, obviously, we want absolutely no water being able to be collected within that space from any elements, being transitioned through the structure or the space within, and the condensation and vapor needing a way out. Extremely sensitive spaces, a lot being habitable.

It'd be good to know... I think on the chat I did see, there's an architect there trying to design an in-ground habitable space. It would be good to just sort of see what factors have been considered to date, if any, or round-table discussions? This is definitely something that's happening more and more. And the considerations need to be taken to ensure that, you know, the correct steps are taken to make the space dry effectively. Next slide. Who’s on the summary?

HAYDEN:

Oh, I can jump in there. That’s good, Alex, thanks. I think it's good. And I was thinking, even when you say it's a Grade 1, 1A or 1B, coming through. You also need to consider the moisture. Where does the moisture go once it's in there? And there is often a transfer of vapour up through the floor, the next floor. And over time, that results in mould and mildew and hygiene issues, etc. So consider things like that. It's not... There's one thing about the structural integrity and on the basement, but think about the effects of where the moisture goes, the contamination that can come with that. All those type of things, especially in ground conditions that are bad, etc. And that thinking should be in your decision process when you're deciding the grade and locking that in. I think it's really good.

This webinar is purely focused around the grades, and getting to that point, locking in that. And it's not about how to, the waterproofing required for those grades yet. That will be our next session. So we’ll be keen to have you on board for that one. No doubt you’ll have a bunch of questions running through your mind right now, so put those in the chat and question box so you don't forget.

But yes, just to reiterate, it's super, super, super, important, selecting the, and agreeing on the grade of environment early, performance grade. Get familiar with it. Ask those tough questions at those early design meetings. What grade are we accepting? Even pull up some images of seepage, ingress and things, and say, Is this what we want? You know, those sort of things we should be... A bunch of us are very visual, and we need to be able to reference that. So even having that sort of documentation in your project files is helpful. So lock in on that. The Grade 1, the Grades, and then from there we can start looking at how are we going to build it? How are we going to waterproof it to make that Grade? But that little slip on the screen there is a quick reference guide. We'll send that out to everybody that's been on this call. It's just a little hand guide that you can reference and tie that across your projects. On the bottom half, obviously the Grades at the top and then on the bottom section we’re diving into a little bit of the Types of waterproofing that meet those Grades.

So trust that is helpful for everybody. We're very keen to just chat if there's any questions out there, you’re welcome to stay on for a little bit. But yes, but we've always been project specific. We understand Grades are very project specific environments. Unique in every location. So fire away.

BRENDAN:

Thanks, everybody. And we've got some good questions coming in here.

Samson is asking, How should we, the architects, distinguish between Grades 1A and 1B in practice, especially when stakeholder expectations differ? Stakeholder expectations - there's a topic all on its own! What do you want to say about that, Christine?

CHRISTINE:

Yes, cool. Good question. Especially when you're talking about different expectations in your ... all of the chefs in the kitchen! In terms of distinguishing between 1A and 1B - 1A you could have pools of water collecting, there could be... there's going to need to be drainage to carry that and manage that on the interior. So there could be puddles forming. Grade 1B would just be being able to see dampness. So it's not going to be coming through... You're not able to collect it, but you can see moisture coming through from the outside. But it's going to dissipate before it manages to form a puddle. And in terms of the volume of that, that's going to be a conversation specifically about that project, with all of the relevant parties, and people who are experts at managing and prescribing the right solution for that particular project.

HAYDEN:

Yes, just on that as well, just as you mentioned at the start, Christine, too. The point you can make is, is it collectible water? If it's collectible - as in you can hold up a container or cup or whatever, and you can actually collect it coming through, ingress - that's still in the 1A category. If it's just damp, that the surface is damp, you can’t collect it as such, that's more of the 1B category. It's a sort of a visual and physical way of doing it as well, but probably ties into Harry’s question, which is good; that's the volume. It will help us decide the Grade. I don't know if that sort of answers a little, but again that goes with that ‘collectible’ word. And if you're OK with water coming in, that you can control, collect and control and channel out, you know, that's a Grade 1A. If you're OK with just damp on the walls, that's a Grade 1B.

ALEX:

It's probably a good conversation for the stakeholders. Do you want to be able to hold up a container and fill it up with water, or do you want to just be able to see dampness on the wall? I mean, that point in itself would, you know, potentially take it to the next level and decide on which Grade it's going to be in itself.

HAYDEN:

Yes. And literally some...

CHRISTINE:

There would be flow-on from there as well. You'd get potential, growth or rust staining and things like that with the Grade 1A whereas less likely with the 1B, yes, depending on what they're going to want it to look like at the end. Sorry, Hayden, I interrupted you.

HAYDEN:

No, I hope that answers those questions, Samson and Harry. But I think it is super important early to get that sorted because what someone envisages at the design phase is often quite different to when they come into the apartment, you know, drive in their nice vehicles, park down the bottom, see water and say, My building's falling down!

If you can have that expectation right the front that, yes, we'll see a little bit of water or whatever it does - make that really clear. And even do it with images, yes, this is a level we accept.

BRENDAN:

If I could just add a comment there. One thing we have seen with some of the local councils is they’ve got very stringent requirements about what sort of water you're putting back, when you're removing water from your basement, putting it back into the stormwater systems and so forth.

ALEX:

Yes.

BRENDAN:

That may be a factor that we need to consider as well.

ALEX:

Correct, yes. We find that in a lot of different... and the State and Council laws change. Yes, council to council and state to state as well. So what might be acceptable down the road might not necessarily be acceptable, you know, at a different address. So there's various considerations that need to be taken, when in this design phase, which is why it's really important to make the decisions early so that they can be facilitated right the way throughout that construction process. And the end result has that expectation based off your requirements as well. So very important.

HAYDEN:

No, that's good. I think, Mark, your question’s really good, about being a specifier. I think that's exactly the place we need to start. And as early as we can. We say, yes, this building is a concept. And I'm doing a Grade 2 basement due to building usage, etc. From there, everybody knows structurally - the ground workers, the engineers, whatever it is - all the parties know that, designing to that grade, and that determines how it's built; the methodologies, everything.

Because where we have been caught out in the past in our industry, is, we’ll design a building, design it for the use of - whatever it is. And then we say, Hey, we need to waterproof this. It's the wrong way round. And this model, BS8102, and getting the Grades right at the start just helps everything line up. But I don’t know if, Christine or Alex, whether you’ve got any extra comments there?

ALEX:

No, I totally agree. The earlier the better, as mentioned, yes. Geotech will be very high on that radar, from an assessment point. I mean, we've seen hundreds of drawings, where, you know, water tables are maybe halfway through the first level. But there's not been a consideration for when an event occurs and that water table rises, you know. Even just something like that. Yes, it all factors in and it all has to be part of an expectation, this discussion, very, very early.

HAYDEN:

Yes. It's often ... we’re still seeing it on plans. And I know it's a gap between sort of architects, engineers, etc, but still very often it's written “waterproofing by others” and that's all that's said. And you're heading into the later phases of the design. It's very, very hard for anyone to get it right.

ALEX:

For sure.

HAYDEN:

Next one on you, Christine.

CHRISTINE:

Yes, I was thinking, in terms of that, you're asking whether you should just specify it. I think use it as a conversation starter as well too, and take the opportunity to familiarize yourself with it because... just because in NZ-AU we don't have to comply to this, doesn't mean that it's not a really good base to get a successful outcome with.

And so, I mean, there are certain firms that I do work with, that do use this as the bible essentially. And so that's how they're getting successful outcomes. It still means that they're then in the position of having to educate other people at the table. But because it is clear with these Grades and with the Types, you can have really pointed simple conversations about it.

So, yes, use it as the framework that it's designed for, and get those outcomes that everybody can understand from the beginning.

Yes. In terms of what you're asking, Cameron, about geotech as a minimum. Absolutely. Because that's one of the things I think we'll get into in a future webinar, where we’re assessing the water table, and that impacts on the risk, and how you're going to approach it. So, yes, that's absolutely one of the things. And then you're going to need the structural engineer on board. And I understand that everyone in their different fields has a different motivation, but if you can bring it back to, OK, we're still looking for this outcome and that selection is going to impact on this risk here. And so you're able to have those conversations at that front end.

HAYDEN:

Yes, agree. But it is... like you say, it's the minimum input. You know, you got to think about the water table now. We see some projects come through, they took geotech, you know, 24 months prior. A building has been built beside that, now the water table’s changed, displaced. And then, you know, future use.

So make sure you get these things lined up. And then soil types, you know, is it contamination? - because that requires different things. Is there gas?

ALEX:

Yes that’s right.

HAYDEN:

Is there different protection needed? So as you said that's an absolute minimum.

ALEX:

Mark asked a question there in regards to Grade 3 design. Yes. Effectively you would need to ensure that the slab-to-wall details are designed appropriately, to ensure, you know, your full tanking; and if you’ve crossed all your T’s and dotted all your I’s, in regards to where the transmission or potential water comes into that space, 100%.

HAYDEN:

Yes. And, yes. Welcome to help with that. A big part of this is CSSW, that’s a Certified Structural Surveyor of Waterproofing. There's not many around. We have access to a few. We haven't got one directly in our team. It's a standard that comes... a trade that comes out of the UK as well. So we lean on various ones of those. So yes, we can help out in that space. Christine?

BRENDAN:

A question from Samson on the impact of the standard on contracts.

CHRISTINE:

Yes! Sorry, I'm having... I'm scrolling and it keeps jumping. So I only see half the question. So what impact does it have on contracts or procurement to ensure early design collaboration actually happens? And part of the BS8102:2022 is that you do have a waterproofing consultant on board.

And I mean, again, AU and NZ are not bound by this as a standard yet. It's the direction that we're heading in. And so in terms of that, I think, we can use it as a really good influence in conversations. We can't force anybody to abide by this in our respective countries yet.

But if you're having those conversations and talking about the industry, and how we do seem to be playing a game of “She’ll be right” and then fixing it up after - then influencing the people involved in your projects. But yes, I understand it can be difficult to get everybody to take it as seriously as it needs to.

HAYDEN:

Yes, that's circled in the design flow chart that came up on the screen earlier, that top circle. That's really where all those heads need to get together. And if we follow that framework right, all that information is done prior to the structural considerations. So we're having these discussions really early on.

And I don't think it should involve - I mean, it can - but it doesn't need to be a contractual arrangement. It should be heads together at that point, saying, What's the best for this project?

BRENDAN:

Luke's got a question on BS8102 requiring two systems to be used, how it will affect the Australian market. I would just like to add at this stage that we will be talking about Types of Protection in the next webinar. So that's one thing.

HAYDEN:

Yes, we’re diving into that in a lot more detail and showing that. But it's 100% true. And it's where our industry needs to change if we want to get this right. If we want to do the work upfront and then get the right outcomes and follow a best practice guide, we will be changing our methodologies. And I know the first thing that's going to come up is cost. If you balance that out against the cost of remedials over the lifetime of the project, you know... So you've got to get those results.

But, how will this likely affect the Australian market? It will affect it. There is people doing it well already and it's at the quality end of construction, which is great. Great to see, and coming out with good results. So doesn't have to be too technical. There's a bunch of different combinations that you can get the right results. So...

BRENDAN:

And we're waiting with bated breath for the National Construction Code!

Cameron's got a question on Grade 2 as a minimum. And there again, I suppose it's about collaboration, would you say?

CHRISTINE:

Yes. And yes, the issues with collaborating with different fields. Yes. I mean, we can only try to have these conversations. And that's what we're talking about, is getting into the waterproofing conversation early as well, because when once a structural design is locked in, it can be very hard to get somebody who worked on that to shift away from anything.

And so, if at all possible, having these conversations early; where the waterproofing is being considered. And saying, Hey, actually, we're going to need to come up with a collaborative solution here so that we can protect your structural steel. That's a good topic for discussing with engineers, because if there's water coming through the structure, then there's water going through to the structural steel, which is not great for structural.

So, yes, that's it. Keep pushing for these conversations.

HAYDEN:

Yes. And involve a waterproofing... or even someone that does up a design, early, because it's not really... it shouldn't be anything, you know... you're not looking at the end, you're thinking about the project at this point.

So it probably ties up with your next question around distinguishing between tanking and waterproofing. The difference when the whole basement is below-grade. If we look at BS8102, it's about protection of below-grade structures for water ingress. Probably want to just focus on that. It's about protecting the structure, and there's different terminology within it. But to get to that result. So some people say that they sell tanking; some people say they sell waterproofing. But essentially what it's about is the best protection for that structure. That's what we need to focus on.

BRENDAN:

Samson’s got a rep ... question on - I nearly said, repair! - retrofit basement projects. But yes, let's say repair as well. Do you want to comment on that at all? Is it something that we're touching on here?

HAYDEN:

I don't mind kicking it off the. Yes. As part of the framework of BS8102 - it's interesting. It considers the... what's the word it uses? but how can it be maintained over the life of the project, the waterproofing. And, you know, what is the access to remediate etc? So these sort of things come up early in the design, framework to make sure it's thought about.

But there is, 100%, there's different ways of doing it even if, you know, there's not much room. There's different systems etc, that can help there. So, the code doesn't specify types as in, you know, actual products, etc. It's more about ways to achieve outcomes.

BRENDAN:

And that probably ties into…

CHRISTINE:

I'd like to mention,…

BRENDAN:

Cameron's question about people you have to deal with.

CHRISTINE:

Yes, I mean, that's a whole ‘nother issue! And again, just collaborating and choosing to collaborate with people who are going to want a quality outcome, where you can, where you do have the choice. And in terms of using this as a guide as well, it can be used as a form of warranty check. Have we achieved what we have been talking about the whole way through? You can use that differentiation between... If it's been designed as a Grade 1B, but there's water coming through that's collectible, that's not performing to how it's been designed. And so yes, it's good in terms of that far end of the project as well. You can easily determine whether it is performing as designed. Yes.

HAYDEN:

Yes. And I think we do need to be careful with... We do to be careful of the loopholes between the thing. Because as we've touched on, I think the past webinar, you know, if there's a lot of different parties, you get a lot of finger-pointing. But we need to just tie it together as one group and say, as a group, we’re collectively going to own this. We’re collectively going to own the outcome.

And… who are the waterproofing experts we’re speaking of? Oh, there's plenty out there, to be honest. And there's plenty of renowned ones. There's plenty of big companies. Obviously we have an arm - why else would we be doing this? But it does depend on what you're trying to build, where you're trying to build it, the type of structure, etc. There's different, expertise around that we need to draw on. But the main point we’re trying to make is there is a framework to follow and get someone to help you.

BRENDAN:

Is this about the CSSW though, Hayden? We could share some names and examples afterwards.

HAYDEN:

Yes. Yes. You’re welcome to reach out and we’ll introduce a couple of those. Yes.

CHRISTINE:

And quality facade or envelope engineers as well.

HAYDEN:

Brilliant questions.

BRENDAN:

One last question coming in, I think. And I think we probably can start wrapping it up. It has been good. Excellent interaction. Very much appreciate everybody's input.

HAYDEN:

Yes. And roughly in a month or so we'll be doing the Types of waterproofing that reflect and respond to these Grades. Looking forward to having you on for that one, and bring your mates along, because it's a big topic out there that we need to discuss together and get right.

BRENDAN:

Yes. I’d just refer for all of our viewers that we do have the previous webinar sitting on our Invisible Strength site, which gave a bit of a more holistic or helicopter view of the standard and the parts in it. You might find that helpful. And thank you very much, everybody. Very much appreciate it.

CHRISTINE:

Yes. Thank you.

ALEX:

Thanks for your questions, guys.

HAYDEN:

Thanks all. Have a great... what day are we? Wednesday! Happy midweek!

ALEX:

Cheers guys!

BRENDAN:

Very good. Thank you.